LTOR said: As for the youth, I'm not really qualified to say how many are reading the OP regularly.
Neither am I qualified to say how many sub 20 year olds read the Ojai Post but I did take an informal poll a few weeks ago. I asked around 20 sub 20s and only one had even heard of the Ojai Post. None had ever read it. My position is this: I think your ability to refine and alter the tone of Millenium's discourse will greatly improve when your motivation for doing so is based in a more substantial reality instead of a low potential one. Your critique of MT is valid and will become more balanced and more powerful and less urgent when you have the aplomb to speak only for your self without having to use the elusive youth as your rallying point.
Anyway, your proven abilty to apportion, introspect and peruse will have a far greater impact than trying to make a stubborn horse drink the water. He needs to see how clear and refreshed others become after drinking from the cool stream of demureness. BTW, it may be a good time to acknowledge that MT has become much more affable in the last month or so.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 26, 2007 01:50 AM
Wednesday, September 26, 2007
Tuesday, September 25, 2007
Simply complex
I agree that one does not resist arrest. It does show a lack of good sense but at the same time there are exceptions to every rule. This is not the issue I had with the previous statement. My issue was the: 'either mentally ill or drunk or on drugs' claim. This is an oversimplification which frames the incident in a way which 'obfusgates' the facts. You see, it is obvious that the student was not drunk or mentally ill. He was passionate and articulate and he takes issue with how our ability as a nation to vote for our president has been taken away. We no longer have a democracy. This is the heart of the issue. It is quite understandable in my eyes why someone would be so enthusiastic. It is called righteous exasperation.
Phalarope: Excellent addition to this thread.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 21, 2007 10:30 AM
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The way I see it, this particular nation's number one industry is the military/weaponry complex. The number two industry is the prison/justice system. Thus, getting arrested only feeds the borg. When the criminal justice system becomes intrinsic to the health of a nation's economy then it becomes necessary to create a criminal class. In the not too distant future, the state will be taking your organs for a speeding violation.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 21, 2007 04:35 PM
Phalarope: Excellent addition to this thread.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 21, 2007 10:30 AM
================-===========-========-=======-==========-============-=======-=
The way I see it, this particular nation's number one industry is the military/weaponry complex. The number two industry is the prison/justice system. Thus, getting arrested only feeds the borg. When the criminal justice system becomes intrinsic to the health of a nation's economy then it becomes necessary to create a criminal class. In the not too distant future, the state will be taking your organs for a speeding violation.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 21, 2007 04:35 PM
The art of diplomacy
LTOR, thank you for your carefully considered response. Clearly, you've given MT a great deal of thought. I certainly cannot argue that MT has not been very diplomatic, has been dismissive and has also been ferociously unfair to Evan (in the past). I can see why you feel compelled to dig in to him. The reason I consider MT a soldier for peace is he sets himself apart when he backs up at least some of his rhetoric with his lifestyle choices. His having a garden that he lives off as well as leading a car free existence seals the deal for me. Thus, I may be guilty of glossing over his rough spots. Clearly, MT needs to study the art of diplomacy to get to the next level. LTOR, you are translucently giving me a lesson in artfulness with your respectful inflection. But, when you say that you speak out of concern for the youth, you lose me. How many under 20 year olds even know that the Ojai Post exists? And the ones that do, well, I supect they are more astute then you give them credit for.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 25, 2007 03:11 PM
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 25, 2007 03:11 PM
Sunday, September 16, 2007
Dennis Leary Rocks!
Dennis, Wow, thank you for sharing your story. Observing your growth as a writer and a human being has been inspiring. Even thru this binary world, I sense a sincerity that seems to disarm the attack dogs. It never ceases to amaze me when the herd like mentality rears its ugly head and machine guns the dissenters. It makes me think of ants, bees and emperor penguins.
Ants do not have any room for the rare indepenent minded ant. They destoy the aberration immediately. Bees are part of a hive. The hive mentality rules and any bee that does not work is killed. Among the ants and the bees there is no room for individual artistry. Emperor penguins also come to mind when I read many of these threads. Most folks want to be where it is safe. Where it is warm. The emperor penguin cannot exist alone. They take turns on being on the outside - exposed to the arctic elements. This is where the metaphor diverges. I think the vast majority of Americans do not want to be on the outside at all - especailly with their perspective on politics. The idea that their are folks who live outside the mundane, main stream, franchise, fast food, TV, God Bless America, uncle sam, apple pie world is deeply disturbing to them. Why is this so? I think on a deep level they cannot help but compare themselves to the true individual and this comparison makes them feel less than. It makes them feel like they have been wasting their lives, like they have never accessed their true creative potential. This, I suspect, is everyone's darkest fear: They have been holding themselves back and not even scraping the surface of what it means to be human.
I think you know what it is Dennis. Thank you.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 16, 2007 10:26 PM
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I like your writing spaz. Intellectual, contemplative, honest and deep -- at least to me. It's painful to me sometimes to read the posts when everyone jumps on something or starts attacking. I notice often when I comment or ask a question no one here notices because it's not part of the immediate argument but I want to go deeper and understand more. Your writing to me sort of sums it up, wraps it up. Thanks!
and, btw. Seems apropro that along with all these slams there are fewer and fewer actual names being used.
I stand as kate.
Posted by: kate | September 16, 2007 11:39 PM
Ants do not have any room for the rare indepenent minded ant. They destoy the aberration immediately. Bees are part of a hive. The hive mentality rules and any bee that does not work is killed. Among the ants and the bees there is no room for individual artistry. Emperor penguins also come to mind when I read many of these threads. Most folks want to be where it is safe. Where it is warm. The emperor penguin cannot exist alone. They take turns on being on the outside - exposed to the arctic elements. This is where the metaphor diverges. I think the vast majority of Americans do not want to be on the outside at all - especailly with their perspective on politics. The idea that their are folks who live outside the mundane, main stream, franchise, fast food, TV, God Bless America, uncle sam, apple pie world is deeply disturbing to them. Why is this so? I think on a deep level they cannot help but compare themselves to the true individual and this comparison makes them feel less than. It makes them feel like they have been wasting their lives, like they have never accessed their true creative potential. This, I suspect, is everyone's darkest fear: They have been holding themselves back and not even scraping the surface of what it means to be human.
I think you know what it is Dennis. Thank you.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 16, 2007 10:26 PM
========================-===============-==============-===========-=========
I like your writing spaz. Intellectual, contemplative, honest and deep -- at least to me. It's painful to me sometimes to read the posts when everyone jumps on something or starts attacking. I notice often when I comment or ask a question no one here notices because it's not part of the immediate argument but I want to go deeper and understand more. Your writing to me sort of sums it up, wraps it up. Thanks!
and, btw. Seems apropro that along with all these slams there are fewer and fewer actual names being used.
I stand as kate.
Posted by: kate | September 16, 2007 11:39 PM
Reply to sender
LTOR :One of the latest more bizarre claims out there, apparently, is a belief that the voices of the passengers on the planes were electronically “cloned” beforehand and used to leave messages for their families.
It has been my understanding (and experience) that cell phones do not work on planes. This might be a consequence of flying above a certain altitude. It certainly makes me curious. Oh, and this claim goes back to 2001, so I wouldn't call it 'the latest'.
LTOR: Some believe that Jews were told not to show up to work that morning, so there you have collusion with ordinary US Jewish citizens, which (like Jock’s claims) I find really offensive. I have personally seen people with already existing anti-semetic and neo-nazi’s tendencies gleefully glom onto this.
I am now understanding your strong stance and ardent quest to figure out why folks have different opinions on this controversial subject. All I can do is speak for myself and share my own personal opinion. First off, I don't see the anti-semetic sentiment dominating nine eleven discussions - that may be because I am not looking for them. I suspect you are older than I and have imprinted different biases and tendencies with regard to this particular issue. Frankly, it is a complete nonissue with me even though I do have a Jewish heritage through blood.
A manmade disaster of this magnitude - only 3 months after an obviously rigged election with so many inconsistentcies in the 'official' 911 story has of course attracted a great deal of scrutiny from the public. It is no surprise that it attracts fringers and conspiracy theorists like moths to a light bulb. Our country has a dark history of assassination, subterfuge and self sabatage. Of course, it is not the only country that lies to its citizens.
I may be wrong but it seems as though your lumping together the folks who dissent from the 'official' sanatized main stream story, in to 2 groups, suggests to me that you are subject to the type of narrowminded and pre judgemental thought that you appear to be accusing Jock and Millenium of. I suspect you have a great deal of angst about what happened and Jock is a lightening rod for you to release this pent up energy.
In the end, I do not believe Jock or Millenium have the influence that you seem to be over reacting to. I believe this is all worthy of discussion but I do appreciate one's ability to observe and be honest with their own particular reality screens.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 14, 2007 10:47 AM
It has been my understanding (and experience) that cell phones do not work on planes. This might be a consequence of flying above a certain altitude. It certainly makes me curious. Oh, and this claim goes back to 2001, so I wouldn't call it 'the latest'.
LTOR: Some believe that Jews were told not to show up to work that morning, so there you have collusion with ordinary US Jewish citizens, which (like Jock’s claims) I find really offensive. I have personally seen people with already existing anti-semetic and neo-nazi’s tendencies gleefully glom onto this.
I am now understanding your strong stance and ardent quest to figure out why folks have different opinions on this controversial subject. All I can do is speak for myself and share my own personal opinion. First off, I don't see the anti-semetic sentiment dominating nine eleven discussions - that may be because I am not looking for them. I suspect you are older than I and have imprinted different biases and tendencies with regard to this particular issue. Frankly, it is a complete nonissue with me even though I do have a Jewish heritage through blood.
A manmade disaster of this magnitude - only 3 months after an obviously rigged election with so many inconsistentcies in the 'official' 911 story has of course attracted a great deal of scrutiny from the public. It is no surprise that it attracts fringers and conspiracy theorists like moths to a light bulb. Our country has a dark history of assassination, subterfuge and self sabatage. Of course, it is not the only country that lies to its citizens.
I may be wrong but it seems as though your lumping together the folks who dissent from the 'official' sanatized main stream story, in to 2 groups, suggests to me that you are subject to the type of narrowminded and pre judgemental thought that you appear to be accusing Jock and Millenium of. I suspect you have a great deal of angst about what happened and Jock is a lightening rod for you to release this pent up energy.
In the end, I do not believe Jock or Millenium have the influence that you seem to be over reacting to. I believe this is all worthy of discussion but I do appreciate one's ability to observe and be honest with their own particular reality screens.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 14, 2007 10:47 AM
Throwing pebbles
I would not attempt to characterize Jock at this time. Not enough data. As far as your use of the terms 'extreme lack of cohesiveness and agreement within' goes and then trying to use Jock as an example of it; well, it appears to me that you have a theory and are out to prove it as lazily as possible.
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 14, 2007 01:21 AM
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 14, 2007 01:21 AM
Direct question
LTOR: Do you[Dennis] or Spaz Zapper believe an attack is being planned for tomorrow and, if so, is it also your conclusion that El Al's lack of flights into the US is proof of collusion and/or knowlege of such an event taking place?
Thank you for asking and not jumping to conclusions. In my opinion, I do not think there will be any 'attacks' tomorrow. Although, I do understand why some of us may be a bit skittish. I believe that attempts to shame, embarrass or shout them down only reflect back on the shamer. Is it so easy to forget that we have been and are lied to by representatives of our government?
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 13, 2007 09:04 PM
Thank you for asking and not jumping to conclusions. In my opinion, I do not think there will be any 'attacks' tomorrow. Although, I do understand why some of us may be a bit skittish. I believe that attempts to shame, embarrass or shout them down only reflect back on the shamer. Is it so easy to forget that we have been and are lied to by representatives of our government?
Posted by: Spaz Zapper | September 13, 2007 09:04 PM
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